"Law & Order: Special Victims Unit" Intimidation Game (TV Episode 2015) Poster

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5/10
Only a 5 because ...
norareign11 November 2019
Warning: Spoilers
Tutuola puts three slugs in Logan Paul's character.
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5/10
Not gonna lie, this was a weird one.
ramonaklitzke24 January 2023
Normally I tend to rate SVU episodes on the higher side, but this one just left me scratching my head. The dialogue was really simplistic and overwrought for SVU. Parts of it read like an informational video about popular culture. There are ways to clue your audience into what unfamiliar terms might mean without making it feel like an awkward educational video from the '90s.

"Doxxing? Gee, what's that?" "That's a great question, fellow officer! Doxxing is when (insert copied and pasted definition from Wikipedia)."

There are multiple moments like this that just make it feel like we're being talked down to. Then there's the dialogue from the baddies in the game, which has absolutely zero nuance and just repeats itself along the lines of, "B****! We don't like b****es in gaming!" But, why, exactly? Meh, who knows. The episode utterly fails to address this extremely important question.

SVU could have taken the time spent overexplaining gamer culture in order to even vaguely address the complexities of online misogyny and overlapping incel culture, but they didn't even try. The topic is hinted at when Carisi says something along the lines of that attitude coming from "a place of pain, and a feeling like you don't matter." But that line of thinking is immediately obscured by absurd references to the perps "leveling up" and attempts to explain their behavior as not being able to tell the difference between real life and video games. Huh? Considering their behavior bears zero relationship to the gameplay in their game of choice (a Call of Duty lookalike), this makes zero sense.

There are some enjoyable moments, such as Carisi's undercover performance (that guy is just a fantastic actor). Mouzam Makkar brings strength and nuance to the character of Raina Punjabi, despite a poorly written character arc. I also got a kick out of Fin's reference to Civ 5, even though his delivery was so awkward and rehearsed.

Ultimately, we're left with is a very shallow and confusing portrayal of a bunch of completely unrelatable characters. This topic had a lot of potential; The echo chamber of the manosphere and overlapping gamer culture is extremely relevant right now, as online culture encroaches more and more on the real world. This episode failed to explore any of that. I hope they try again at some point with a better writer, because these issues are important.
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3/10
Game over
TheLittleSongbird24 August 2022
Even on first watch, "Intimidation Game" struck me as one of the worst episodes of 'Law and Order: Special Victims Unit'. The premise wasn't immediately appealing in the first place, and if the episode was trying to make the subject as inaccessible and distasteful as possible it succeeded. Or at least that was the thought that appeared in my head on first watch, some will say that that was not the case in actuality but that is how it felt when first watching it.

Have rewatched "Intimidation Game" twice, same with all episodes of 'Special Victims Unit', both times it went even lower in my estimations with each watch. The show did have its fair share of very underwhelming episodes prior to "Intimidation Game", but up to this point of the show's run this is easily for me the worst episode. And this was an opinion that was formed well before finding out that it is the lowest rated episode. All the bad things are executed pretty terribly and almost all the usual strengths manage to be cons this time.

It is not irredeemably awful or unwatchable (close though). The acting from the regulars is good, especially from Ice-T who does tough and sympathetic very well. Fin's backstory gripped and gives Fin the most interesting material he's had in seasons. Really great to see some development to him after being so underused and one dimensional for too long.

There is a beautifully written and acted scene between him and Olivia, that sees an otherwise juvenile feeling episode at its most mature.

Unfortunately for "Intimidation Game" that is pretty much it with the redeeming merits. What immediately stands out in a bad way is the over-simplified and over-genralised (true in real life but not as extreme as presented here) depiction of gamers and the gamergate community. True a lot of fans are very passionate and can act extremely, but this is like every negative stereotype given to gamers reinforced and exaggerated distastefully. Maybe the episode was trying to show that not everyone gamer resorts to violent and extreme acts, but that is not how it came over in the execution which indicated the opposite. Such as the misogyny being taken too far. Actually know people who are passionate gamers and are not like this.

Moreover, there is absolutely no tension or suspense whatsoever in the story, which was very difficult to get into with its leaden pace, slight and pretty simplistic plotting and with no surprises. It also has a really contrived and over dramatised climax, too much of a cartoonish tone (which is present in the entire episode, but especially bad here) and the perpetrators are overacted. The police came over like idiots and seem to be going through the motions, and the episode is one of the show's worst written. Heavy handed, condescending (where even the police are talked down to), with too much repetitive and increasingly obnoxious slang that will confuse anybody unfamiliar with what is being explored and juvenile dumbed down dialogue for the perpetrators.

What usually come over as good things fail here. Nearly all the previous episodes were well made visually, but here there is some uncharacteristically sloppy camerawork that made me feel nauseous on all three watches. The music is far too melodramatic, the direction is leaden and while the regulars are good the supporting cast shamelessly overact (especially the ringleader). Oh and the first scene was pointless and felt shoehorned in.

Pretty poor episode, thank goodness for Fin though. 3/10.
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1/10
I don't even...
dave_gene_pico11 February 2015
This was just a mess of an episode. Absolutely contrived writing which seemed to abandoned the plot of the first half of the episode in favor of something that made no sense in the second. Their portrayal of the villains as an ISIS-like cell was absolutely ridiculous and, frankly, insulting considering the evil that group is wreaking upon the world. Even worse, it was like watching the episode where they had a chase scene using Second Life, portraying the mundane in such a serious light that I was rolling on my floor, laughing so hard that I got a hernia (not really, but you get it). This was simply the writers attempting to bank on Internet culture, memes, and fandom to do their work for them. Perhaps the most offensive thing about this episode is all of the hype about it portraying the harassment of women, while a contingent of experience cops and detectives do nothing to stop victimization. Absolutely disgusting.
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1/10
Stereotypical and wrong.
duden54311 February 2015
Warning: Spoilers
Inspired by the "gamergate" controversy this episode is offensive to everyone that plays video games.

Bad guys are white males living in moms basement.(seriously) The main victim is a Indian female developer with the name Punjabi (seriously) and wearing big gold earrings. I now understand Muslims when they watch episodes where everyone of them are portrayed as wife-beating terrorists that hate America.

Cheesy lines like "whats the next level" and "lets level up" from the main characters pushes this in satire/parody level. The plots goes like this: Lady attending the Booth of the game Amazonian Warriors (seriously) in a games festival gets assaulted by two "gamers" who don't want women in gaming. And from there it turns out that every (white) male that plays a video game cant separate real-life from video-games and kidnaps Punjabi and then rapes her in front of a web-cam from the site Red-chan-it. (Get it? Its 4/8 Chan and Reddit combined) The plot narrative follows the normal pattern with escalation without any narrative then the victim. There is just conclusion that the bad guys does it because they do not want women in gaming.

Its basically black and white and in this age of Television i expected more.
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1/10
Cultural Fearmongering
bdlytt17711 February 2015
The only thing this episode really managed to do was evoke a feeling of nostalgia for outdated "tech culture" that was never really accurate to begin with. From the ominous "hackers" of redchanit to the darknet the whole episode feels like as if the movie "Hackers" was for one day made into a TV Series with all of its over the top tech references. The whole thing felt surreal and it was easy to forget I wasn't watching a drawn out SNL skit.

The worst thing was the premise of the episode was based in the kind of fear-mongering that lead to films like "Mazes and Monsters". The only way this episode could succeed at anything is if it was obviously satire.
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1/10
Bwahahahahaha
penguinman133711 February 2015
Since when did SVU change it's format from "gritty crime drama" to comedy? This episode was a clear attempt to smear that fell so flat even in that objective as to be actually funny. I'll save you the memes of "darknet," "redchanit," and "level up" but suffice it to say this is Plan 9 From Outer Space levels of terrible and yet funny. Especially one scene at the end. I'll leave out the spoilers, but let's just say even Dwayne Johnson would want to keep his name out of the credits for this masterpiece of fail. I know they say this isn't based on any "actual events" but that's bull and we all know it. If I were reviewing this as a comedy it would get a 10/10. But this was clearly not the intended purpose and it utterly fails at being anything other than so bad it's funny.

Best hard hitting, fact based examination of relevant social issues since Reefer Madness.
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10/10
Just one thing makes this perfect!
daoriggamer16 July 2019
Warning: Spoilers
SPOILER WARNING

Ice T pops Logan Paul in the chest.
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7/10
Pac-Men run amok in this very politically incorrect episode
safenoe27 July 2020
Warning: Spoilers
I had a feeling this episode would get low user ratings on IMDb. Anyway, the absolution by Olivia (Mariska Hargitay) to Odafin (Ice-T_ practically excusing him of shooting dead a gamer at the end is kind of dated. Olivia's line "It was a good killing" is one that hasn't dated well really. Still, the episode raises lots of issues and food for thought.

This is one of the most politically incorrect episodes of Law and Order: SUV.
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1/10
Completely baffled
wooinferno8312 February 2015
Warning: Spoilers
Watching this episode, I was really conflicted between giving this episode either a 1 or a 10.

On one hand, I've never laughed so hard in my life, the sheer unintentional humor and misinterpretation of a gaming culture from outsiders had me splitting at the seams, especially when the ragtag basement dwellers started hacking everything and organizing heists far outside the scope of any normal being. The corny lines, the irony, there's never a dull moment.

On the other hand, it falls flat as a drama and everything it meant to be. For whatever social impact it meant to have--be it recognizing gamers as inherently misogynistic beings or encouraging women into the gaming industry--well, that failed horrendously as well, considering how the villains were clowny caricatures of an over-hammed stereotype and whatever was supposed to be a protagonist just gives up at the end.

All in all, I enjoyed it for all the wrong reasons, and the plot was absolutely absurd. The writing was poor, relied on clichés, and utterly unable to grasp reality, not to mention the irony in the line "I can tell the difference between a video game and reality" did not go unnoticed. I loved it. You get an honorary 10/10.
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10/10
Gamer bros rating low because the truth hurts
clflynn-883-25105715 September 2019
The inspiration for the episode was misogyny in gaming. So the fragile gamer incels came over here en masse and rated the episode with one star. Lol. They doth protest too much, methinks.
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7/10
Pretty accurate to me...
bpete3332 February 2024
Warning: Spoilers
I've gone to gaming conventions. Many guys act like this. Not every plenty are nice. But to claim there's no gamer with this kind of mentality is just plain wrong. Not to the terrorist level (see what I did there) but a decent degree of douchey hatefulness I have witnessed. They didnt even touch the raslcists that flood some of these conventions. Overall it's a decent episode. Not the best but pretty good. Yes, they amped eveything up, overexaggerate, simplified, and generalized things but that's a trope of the show. It seems like people only get offended we it relates to something they do, in this case gamer have gone nuts with their 1/10 reviews. And yes, the best part is watching Logan Paul be popped by Ice T. He now a wrestler on the WWE but he's not any less annoying. Also I love watching the early episodes with Carisi. He one 0f the best later characters of the show. He's so wonderfully Blunt. And him going undercover as a gamer is just a joy to watch.
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1/10
A slap in the face of the fans.
jareomar12 February 2015
I have been watching Law & Order over the past decade and i have grown used to the good acting, not only of the main cast but also of the supporting roles, the adult and varied themes and the realist approach this themes are presented. In this episode none of that was present, the acting was just plain awful, not only of the supporting roles but also of the main cast. It almost looked like the cast didn't want to be there, like they knew the episode was a mistake. If that is the case, than let me tell you how right they were!

I don't know if after so much time they ran out of ideas, or exactly what happened so they would chose such a 'stupid' (sorry, i just didn't have a better word) premise for an episode, but what i do know is it didn't work out, all of that just looked unrealistic, false and really bad science fiction. The "bad guys" remembers me of the Germans/vietcongs/random enemy in some American movies completely lacking any charisma, they are just there for being the bad guys, no reason behind it. And that is NOT what the series usually portrays, what i have gotten used to by watching the series are much deeper and interesting characters.

Its an insult to the fans, to the past of the series and a mockery of our intelligence. I really don't just go around giving 1/10, i think my ratings are open so other people can see what I'm saying, but this one deserves it. With all of that said, i really do hope the series take a turn for the better, they have been doing consistently good episodes for the past few years, and i expect this to be just a small deviation for a otherwise great show.
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1/10
Overdramatized and hilariously written. This will be a legendary meme.
singdavion11 February 2015
This episode is an over dramatization of a hypothetical incident where some men start threatening a woman for her involvement in video games.

It's very unrealistic. The plot is awfully weak, to the point where it becomes laughable how hard they try to make it seem important. The writing is shoddy, featuring some gamer jargon and memes. I ended up chuckling at some of it, especially where it tried to be most compelling.

This episode was made by someone with no sense of the actual conflict that occurs on the internet. It is based entirely off of the coverage of most news networks: the meaningless harassment of a few conniving women.

Still, it is an episode that will probably end up going down in the history of the internet as a meme.
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1/10
This is the most unrealistic episode of any live action show. Ever.
lolsgod13 February 2015
Warning: Spoilers
Big failures of this episode.

1) The girl sexually assaulted in the beginning seems to not care about what just happened to her.

One of the game developer's assistants is sexually assaulted at a game convention for the game K.O.B.S., kill or be slaughtered, (What?! Is this supposed to be the SVU version of COD...?) by two men (white men mind you) who don't want her there. When she is found by the Officer, she goes to drop some stupid one liner about how the gamers "Leveled up".

Are you kidding me? Terrible just terrible. She goes on to talk in gamer slang to the police which makes LITERALLY NO SENSE. She's just been sexually assaulted and shes casually addressing the police. How unaware are the writers? Wow.

2) The women in this episode are the only ones who make logical decisions ALL episode.

There's nothing wrong with this at face value, nothing at all. It's when you make other characters act irrational or stupid to do that is when it crosses the line. The gamers are all mindless killing machines according to this episode and the writers don't even attempt to separate the ISIS-like group of cyber terrorists from other gamers or even people who inhabit the internet. The "bad guys" really have no motivation other than the redneck logic of "we don't want none of yer' kind 'round these parts."

3) The equivalence of gamers to terrorists.

I'm sorry, but what? This plot was not too bad until we hit the second half of the episode. Where the writers decide to instead of focus on things that happen like online harassment and the advent of "Swating" (the act of false 911 calls to send a swat team to someone's house) to go straight to gamers hacking billboards and hijack cars, stealing guns, and raping this female game developer. This is unacceptable, especially since the villains are faceless and have NO motivation. Just disliking this women is not enough motivation, especially to go to the lengths that they do.

4) The Villain gamers aka gamer ISIS/Nazis

These writers. This is where they really just ruined any credibility.

For starters the guys who sexually assaulted the before mentioned assistant just walk up to her and just start harassing her, in the most unrealistic fashion. No one just walks up to a booth and starts talking crap to people. Especially knowing how conventions work, you have to pay. The writers really expect me, the informed viewer, to believe these guys paid money to mess with this woman? I'm sorry, you've stretched your suspension of disbelief. Especially when you use these characters as some form of metric to measure all gamers. I said it before as well, but the lengths they go to get this woman are just unrealistic. Making threating LITERALLY ISIS-LIKE VIDEOS throughout the episode, organizing a troll event at the launch (again making it seem like 20 WHITE dudes would pay money to harass this woman), hacking a power grid (wut?), having an inside man (The security guard who is dumb as bricks, yet somehow knows the license plate, they don't have him say the numbers but its implied and he couldn't see through these guys plan? COME ON), Hacking a billboard to live stream to it, beating this woman, tipping off the cops only to run away, Live streaming them RAPING HER (OH COME THE F*** ON), trying to trick the cops then, having some random shoot out with them on the roof. All for them to get this woman to not make games? Yeah, no. This is so unrealistic to how gamers, internet users or even haters would act. I could on for days about how stupid this is, but lets move on.

5) The Female Developer

She was the best character this whole episode and that's NOT at all a bad thing. I actually rooted for her character to do well, but they just crap all over her for trying to be brave. As if saying that she should have just backed down and influencing the popular notion of victimization that is all over our culture now-a-days. I don't understand how she was the only one who knew how to realistically deal with internet trolls yet is the most punished.

6) SVU writers have no idea how the internet works

Title says it all, they have no idea how online interaction work. Reddchanit aka reddit and 4chans unnatural love child is the website all the threats and harassment comes from. If I held any position of power are reddit especially I would be very upset by this depiction. I've been on countless subreddits and not only is harassment against the entire sites rules but moderators of subreddits do a lot of work to remove those who would harass from their site. Just a disgusting view of how people who use the internet act.

7) The fact that the bad guys in this episode are all White guys

Stereotyping at its finest by the SVU crew. I'm pretty ashamed of this choice, I've watched a lot of episodes of this series and they usually do a great job turning people's real world expectations on their head. "We found this black kid at the scene of the robbery, but it turns out he was innocent and the white kid was the thief" Which I love, I love the episodes where they turn people social expectations their heads, this episode wasn't one of them.

The fact that the gamers in this episode are all conveniently white males. Come on... not even a little diversity? Do I even need to go into this.

All in all, an awful episode that probably would make Jack Thompson himself laugh. If I could give it a zero I would.
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1/10
Hilariously awful with a semi-redeeming ending
corellaalessa11 February 2015
Warning: Spoilers
Absolutely hilariously bad.

I know that SVU is somewhat notorious for its simply god-awful acting but there were some scenes in this that i believe were completely unforgivable.

There has never been a single case of a woman getting beat up in a bathroom stall because some gamer-bros wanted to "level up" if they wanted to "level up" they would probably go play a video game instead.

Gamer-bros have also never kidnapped a woman, stripped her, and then beat her. They would probably rather play a video game instead.

Gamer-bros have never spent their entire time at a gaming convention walking up to female game-devs and harassing them. because, again, they would probably rather just go play video games instead.

But hey, bravo for making the entire episode pointless by having your brave and unafraid feminist simply give up at the end. At least one part of this was accurate to real life.
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1/10
One of the worst episodes of any TV show I've ever seen
ra850713 February 2015
Wow...where do I begin? From the terrible acting by EVERYONE involved (even the main characters), to the absolutely awful script where Ice T has to explain "gamer lingo" in a super-cringey fashion, to the message that apparently all male gamers are misogynist creeps who would rape a woman for daring to make a video game - this was just an awful episode and an even worse waste of my time. What an absolute tour de force of bad acting, cringeworthy dialogue, and an even worse message. Regardless of what side of the "Gamer Gate" issue you're on - we can all agree that this episode of SVU was just plain horrible. This episode was by far the worst of the series, and quite possibly the worst episode of any TV show I've ever seen.
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10/10
Way to much hate on a episode
meetmyreality6 August 2019
This episode is filled with action and is personally one of my favs. It's almost like a group of people, who thought the episode was stereotypical, got together and started a chain reaction of negative reviews. Which in a way, a lot of the negative reviews, are doing exactly what they claim this episode did...judge... Law & order takes issues, of all types, and magnify them. They turn up the volume to the maximum Threshold. They do this for awareness purposes, exposure purposes/teaching purposes, and for entertainment purposes....To heighten the drama(Ratings are a must--which is why the show is so popular and successful). The show aims to get people talking....This episode clearly did..but for all the wrong reasons. This episode is not making fun of gamers or stereotyping them. Now clearly not everyone who's a gamer speak or dress the part...But to act like there isn't a gaming sub culture out there especially in a city like New York is naive.I guarantee most of us know or at one point knew someone who took games way too seriously.(like the clowns In this episode) I have. Now people of all kinds snap....regular people, crazy people...so who's to say a gamer couldn't snap too. Add stress, insomnia, tragedy that can go down..Which is the whole point of this episode. These fools are mad at the world... and instead of the usual excuses we see in episodes of law and order....we get a new concept, these rogue gamers who blame women and women gamers for their problems. Law and order wasn't trying to stereotype gamers or women in gaming.... it took a a social topic and brought awareness to it, by turning it up a 100 degrees(like it has for many of the shows and topics it tackles)
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1/10
Just one thing to say
drakaris-238-87291613 February 2015
I've never written in IMDb before. Despite the thousands of pages I want to say, I will restrict myself to just a few words.

Up until season 6-7 I used to enjoy this show. Then I just stopped watching it.

Today, for various reasons, I watched this episode. You can't even begin to imagine my disgust. That's the reason I decided to write my first post on IMDb.

Which is:

Next time you decide to do an episode on an entire community, research and contact someone from said community. Don't worry. You will be able to find one of us out there pretty easy. Because the gaming community consists of probably over a billion people. Yes, you read the number, billion(s). I can't even imagine the madness that took over you to release this piece of garbage episode. You must have been drugged, I have no other explanation. No sane person will ever agree to be shown on TV in such monumental piece of trash as this episode.
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9/10
How arrogant are gamers
rfndayitabi22 November 2019
Many of those who are writing reviews on this episode are gamers! They pretend that the script is non-realistic. The historical facts say otherwise... remember what happened to Franca Rame! Obviously gamers aren't cultivated enough to know about that fact, but the script seems uplifted from her history
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1/10
Poorly researched episode that made a mockery of real online abuse
e106234811 February 2015
I am writing this as a trans-gendered female gamer who has seen the real face of online harassment.

I had high hopes that this episode would bring to light the real issues my sisters face. Unfortunately this episode was just 60 minutes of dank memes. I feel the writers are too out of touch with this issue (perhaps they should have brought in some up and coming talent from buzzfeed or similar).

The ending left me feeling physically sick and i am seriously considering writing about this whole sorry excuse on my blog.

Shame on you NBC!
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1/10
Where. Do I. Begin.
glennjamin8512 February 2015
So guess what? This is officially the lowest rated episode of this entire series. The runner up beat it by 3 whole points. Jesus Christ on a cracker, I don't know which way the writers will take this; commit hari kari for inflicting this shitshow of failure onto television, or go balls to the wall into CSI Miami territory.

Everything about this fails to astronomical levels; hokey acting where there is usually decent quality, preachy unnatural writing that was clearly written someone that doesn't game or browse the internet, and social commentary that seems as though it fell out of Anita Sarkeesian's head.

I would be laughing more at this 50 minute Gaming Minstrel Show than I already am, except for the fact that the mass of the Network TV sponge- brains will see this as reality and start calling into Fox News to stop the "Reddchans" from "misogyning" them.

Terrorist win.
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1/10
IMDb needs a negative review score option.
artfuldodga12 February 2015
I had to rate this a 1 not because I wanted to but because its the lowest numbered option available. IMDb thanks to NBC you may need to revise your rating score system into the negative. Seriously if this is the future of Law & Order SVU just close up shop now and avoid further embarrassment Trolls 2 producers are looking at this episode in shame.

No "gamer" today wants women out of gaming. NBC next time try not to take your plot ideas from insane individuals on the internet, why? because you get a plot that doesn't make sense and is insulting to both men and women, all gamers alike.

To anyone who worked on this episode, your nightmare is over you can wash off the filth you've created and start again that's up to you.
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2/10
Ripped from Gawker's headlines
Olimpion12 February 2015
Law & Order: Special Victims Unit: Intimidation Game is a tough episode to review. On the one hand, this episode based on the GamerGate controversy (a consumer revolt against a corrupt gaming press more concerned about pushing identity politics than calling out anti-consumer practices) manages to get pretty much everything about the controversy backwards, smearing gamers as rapists and terrorists in the process. At the same time, the episode is a disaster viewed on its own terms, combining a very dark subject matter with the lamest gaming-related puns I've heard in a long while. An early scene where a brutal sexual assault is followed up with a comment that the perpetrators "leveled up" just about sums up the warped sensibilities of this episode. The laughably implausible developments that follow further make it impossible to take Intimidation Game seriously.

However, this definitely falls into "So Bad It's Good" Territory - it feels so out of touch (using terms like doxing and SWATing doesn't convince us you know what you're talking about when you throw them around like a 10-year who just learned some new swear words), so awkward, so driven by Moral Panic that I genuinely believe this has the potential of being the Reefer Madness of gaming. Plenty of TV shows have been guilty of episodes that stereotyped gamers and misrepresented gaming - this one however is in a league of its own, and as a result it's absolutely hilarious to anyone who know anything about gaming.

I give it a 2/10 because of the episode's utter failure to achieve what it presumably set out to do - at the same time I'm grateful that it exists, and I look forward to seeing all the memes, parodies and reviews it will spawn.
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1/10
Waste of Oxygen; Promotes Hatred & Disunity Towards Male & Female Gamers.
Cydramech22 February 2015
I was already skeptical of this episode since Hollywood loves to get everything wrong, but that's an understatement on this episode. It attempts to liken gamers to terrorists, and tries to make some woman out to be a savior, like as if these ever were the facts of the matter.

However, the reality is gamers are most certainly not terrorists. These "Social Justice" folk are intent on destroying culture that disagrees with their extremely-and-almost-criminally misanthropic views. They will stop at nothing to shove their hate-filled views, and they will lie about everything to do so. But I digress.

The episode itself was just unbelievably sad. Ice-T in particular should be ashamed of himself for his role in this episode. It was not only poorly done, but the dialog was either nonsensical or it was cheesy as hell the few times it made sense
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