Star Trek: Discovery (TV Series) The War Without, the War Within (2018) User Reviews

Bit of a mixed bag

[snoozejonc · 6/10 · 3 February 2021]

Discovery looks to enter the Klingon war and turn fortunes around.

I found this to be a hit and miss episode for a number of reasons.

The plot feels like it is setting up a number of things, such as a suspenseful chapter of the war to finish the first series, some melodrama between Burnham and Tyler, and lay the foundations for some possible new antagonists.

Starting off with what I liked, the scenes involving Georgiou I think create a lot of intrigue and potential for future episodes. What the writers do with that potential I do not now yet. Much like the previous episodes the visuals are excellent and the special effects stand out as some of the best seen in the franchise. There is a marked improvement in the dialogue, with not so much obvious exposition as in previous episodes.

What I struggled with mainly were the scenes between Burnham and Tyler. I have not invested in their relationship at all so scenes like these are starting to get quite painful. If I see Tyler looking like he's about to burst into tears again I will probably skip forward. Star Trek has never done romance very well and this is another example. There are also too many plot holes and contrivances, like the moon terraforming sequence. I love the concept but it feels forced for the convenience of the plan. How much they could have done with that idea in the mirror universe?

The more the Klingon war storyline goes on, the more it butchers the established Trek canon. I am pretty ambivalent towards this as I don't care as much as hardcore Trek fans, as long as the story is good, however it does feel like lazy writing to reimagine so much. Truly great writers would be able develop a strong plot and weave it into what was written prior. Star Trek: Enterprise was equally as guilty in some episodes, but with the amount of investment in the streaming/box-set type television of the modern era, you expect better.

All performances are strong with Doug Jones, Michelle Yeoh, Jayne Brook and Mary Wiseman standing out. Sonequa Martin-Green does well with the material she has.

Star Trek - USS Haste

[doappel · 6/10 · 7 February 2018]

* Lame human interactions * Dull war report * Lazy/unrealistic solutions for their issues * Predictable assignment for the vacant position.

Simply boring. But not in the good Elon Musk "boring" way.

The show's problem is that they have a greater story arc that indeed could result in something awesome. But they simply don't give the story enough time to unfold, in episodes with deep scripts. It's almost as if they'd just go through a checklist, marking their progress, with no interest in making that part of the story the best possible experience.

Give us a break one in a while. Don't resolve conflicts or challenges with a finger snap all the time. And for god's sake introduce the characters to us on a deeper level. All the events so far, could have been spread over 30-40 or even more episodes. And it probably would have been a much greater joy and experience. Season 1 is pretty much one huge waste of an interesting idea. It's okay, because you can appreciate the greater idea behind it all. But it could have been so much more. Tragic.

Episode 114

[bobcobb301 · 6/10 · 12 April 2018]

The show is not exactly Legion in the form of mind trickery and teases, but I think they are making it too complicated with some characters being there, others not, and alternate/dream versions of each.

Not a bad episode, but it doesn't seem like they make the Klingon the threat they need, they just flip the switch on and off when they need chaos.

Absolutely solid character-based episode with strong dialog - Lisa Randolph does it again

[wolfstar_imdb · 9/10 · 5 February 2018]

A full show of meaningful and interesting character interactions - scene after scene of strong character-based dialog that a) is about character first, plot second and b) when it does move the plot forward, strives to do so in logical and character-based ways rather than arbitrary ways. The spore magic is again iffy, and the last-minute plot setup apparently required for next week's episode of making MU Georgiou captain in the guise of PU Georgiou is a terrible idea... but other than those two apparent plot prerequisites, it's such a refreshingly grounded, mature, character-based hour. Lisa Randolph is this show's saving grace. Good work from Shazad Latif and Jayne Brook too.

What to do with Excess Deposed Emporers?

[XweAponX · 10/10 · 5 February 2018]

And Excess Voq personalities that are still residing inside of Ash? This is some major Baggage to deal with. The Spore Drive is all dried out and Klingons have taken over the universe.

Anything else? Doesn't look like it. There are no Starfleet assets left, the universe is as bleak as we saw at the end of "Past Prologue". I've been mulling over the similarity to the name of the 1st Deep Space 9 Episode, but that was just someone trying to blow up a Wormhole - Excuse me, "the Celestial Temple of the Prophets". In retrospect, maybe that's exactly what happened, except it was not a Bajoran Terrorist who did it here, it was Michael and Discovery, and that wasn't "no" Celestial Temple, it was a threat to the whole Multiverse.

Leave it to Tilly to solve the Ash issue with the crew. She has to be the one to always do whatever nobody else will. But it takes an intervention from Sarek to get Michael to even talk to him. Is Ash fixed, now? I say, be careful how you treat him, because we don't know who he is *now*.

But Georgiou has become an interesting bauble in Cornwell's eyes. Cornwell sees an opportunity, and maybe so does Georgiou. And Georgiou is not stupid, as she sits in her guest quarters and plots. What does she really want?

And then we have to mention Cornwell's secret plot with L'Rell. I think these two "Women" are very alike. And it is clear that they respect each other. But here I am, treating Discovery as if it were real. But it is real. It's part of Quantum Physics, that any universe we can think up, will exist in another "unrealized reality". Remember the 4th season of the Sci Fi channel's "Farscape"? All we need is a gimmick that will get us into another Verse, usually it's a wormhole.

This is how we cope with our own Mundane Realities, we think about Mirror Universes. The idea of alternate realities has become even more common today, where it was just a rare gimmick used in Science Fiction 50 years ago. But in the last 10 years, first we had Lost which had a huge alternate reality 6th season, and then Fringe in which had Red and Blue universes. for one whole season they had a "Bridge" where people could walk back and forth between them. And even before those shows, we had Sliders in the late 90's. And in Enterprise last season, their own Mirror thread not only brought The Defiant through an Interspacial Rift, but also 200 years into the past, handing the Terran Empire the equivalent of an Atom Bomb. And when we see how Georgiou uses her gadgets, they appear to be much more advanced than what everyone else has. So, not only a Multiverse, but TIME as well. This was explored in the last 2 season of LOST with the Desmond Hume character.

But, it was just clever writing. Beneath any TV show or Film, are the writers. It's not so easy to take a book and turn it into a screenplay, you try it. Good writers take things from their world and plant them into the show, a good writer writes what they know. And what do they know in 2018? In 2018, they know the disintegration of the Executive Branch of the US Government. And so, this gets written into every show on this planet, not because they are "biased". But because - It's what people talk about everywhere, in barber shops. Or at work, or even in Bars.

I Wish there were some kind of Preview with this new iMDB Review section, cos I can't see how this will look "in Situ". And I miss the old Spell checker.

The writers should put more thought in

[TheDonaldofDoom · 6 February 2018]

STD has actually been been pretty solid since the season return for its second half. This episode mostly wraps up things in preparation for the finale and has some moments for character development. Saru has to stomach the truth about what happened to his kind in the mirror universe. Michael has to break up with Ash after he tried to kill her. And the crew hesitantly welcome Ash back. Meanwhile, the Emperor explains how to beat the Klingons. Why is she so helpful? Because she can see this is a chance for her to lead the USS Discovery into battle, of course.

Unfortunately this episode has some plotholes and character beats that don't make sense, like how did it take an emperor from another universe to tell the crew to strike at the heart of the Klingons? I love how it's spoken as if it's some special secret strategy that the normal person can't think of. Yes, the Federation is all love and peace and optimism but I refuse to believe that in this dire situation, they wouldn't have thought of such a rudimentary battle plan themselves. Shows why Star Trek should stay away from season-long war storylines, as the writers don't know what they're doing with them.

There are other things too, like why did the crew need to ask a Klingon to find out what their worldview is? Wouldn't they already know this, or are they as clueless about Klingon culture as liberals are about Islam? How were the crew able to terraform a planet so fast? And would you really trust the Emperor to be Captain of your ship?

Coming Along

[jojoleb · 6/10 · 11 February 2018]

This was more of a bridge-type episode, transitioning us from mirror universe back to prime. It basically tucks away a few loose ends from the past episodes and sets up the action for the next. As little is going to happen in the way of action, you might expect this episode to drag things down. However, I was pleasantly surprised by this one. Without the distractions of CGI generated space battles and phaser laden skirmishes the only thing left was to explore some person-to-person interactions. And they did! (Gwarsh! You can build tension without special effects or bloodshed!)

So, in spite of some poor choices on the part of our characters, this was possibly the most Trek-like episode yet.

THE GOOD One of the problems that has plagued this series from day one is the lack of well written dialog. The charaters have either barked orders/insults to eachother, said perfunctory things to fill in gaps, or spoken very awkwardly. Because this episode was mostly about relationships, the script was actually much better written. Characters actually spoke to eachother about their feelings (or deliberately avoided doing so, as with Burnham speaking to Tyler). All in all, the dialogue was more natural, and you could almost see the relief on the actors faces. It made the whole thing more watchable.

(In fact, Jason Isaacs, Shazad Latif, and Anthony Rapp seem to be the only ones who could consistently deliver the trash dialogue believably. Then again, these guys could read the phonebook and make it sound like Shakespeare. Anthony Rapp, gets special props given some of the utter nonsense that he had to say believably. Now that's acting....)

In this episode we see more glimpses of Saru's nobility and humanity (kelpanity?) in how he deals with Tyler and seeks to understand Burnham. We see Burnham brush off Tyler. Cronwell and L'Rell square off. The solidarity scene in the cafeteria was high-school-musical predictable, with Tilly taking the lead to sit with Tyler, but it did serve to show a crew that has some solidarity and humanity. Things that have been sorely lacking in past episodes.

Okay. And anything that brings Michelle Yeoh back for even a few more episodes is worth watching. Moreover, James Frain finally gets something Vulcan to do and rises to the occasion. His Sarek was on the money this past week.

But some major gaffs in this show seem inevitable.

THE BAD Cornwell 'classifies' any notion of a parallel universe. End of loophole. Yup. That explains why no one else, ever, ever, ever would know that any of this happened. Right.

And this one starts out with a bang--a forced mind meld Sarek to Saru. Now forget the fact that the mind meld was considered sort of a private/intimate thing by Vulcans in the past and--I would think--would usually require participants to be consenting adults, Sarek goes right to it nearly shocking the gentle Saru. I suppose that this makes some sense, given the urgency of the situation, but a few seconds of introduction might have helped the shell-shocked Saru understand what was going on. And--ummm--Burnham was on the bridge. Sarek and Burnham already have a special relationship, why did he not mind-meld with her? Not a specifically the best Vulcan moment for Sarek on this show.

I am loving the fact that Michelle Yeoh gets a redo after being offed in the second episode. I am a little dismayed that the 'only way' to win the war with the Klingons was to let her evil twin Skippy command the Discovery. Ummm. About two seconds of thought would make any sane person question whether the former Empress of the Terran Empire would think that slumming it as a Federation starship captain would be enough for her.

Moreover, there might be a few personality-fit problems with her goals and those of the Federation. Moreoever, moreover, in universe prime the mirror-woman is basically the ultimate sociopath, so how on earth (or Qo'nos) do they trust this woman to command a starship? Use her and lose her after the 4 Years War? Throw her down into the Elba II asylum with Garth of Izar, Marta the Orion woman, Alec Peters, and anyone else considered expendable by the Federation? Heck, maybe she'll jump ship at Qo'noS and become the Klingon Savior. Moreover, moreover, moreover, it's not clear that mirror tactitcs work so well on Klingons, seeing as Captain Killy got vaporized on contact.

And what would an episode of STD be without micelial madness? Channeling the Genesis Project, our lack of spore problem can easily be solved by sending rockets of super spores to populate a barren planet. Why? Because if we don't have the micelial drive on line by next episode, the Klingons will have already sacked planet earth and we couldn't renew for a second season. Or explain the existance of TOS, TNG, or any of the other subsequent series....

THE UGLY No ugly. Really! This one was much better. I am looking forward to next week.

I can't give this one more than 6 stars, but things are coming along for this series. Two weeks in a row! I will absolutely cancel my subscription to CBS until the new episodes are out, but unless things really look bad next week I'm in come the fall.

A great run up to the final

[breadcrumbs-47157 · 9/10 · 5 February 2018]

One thing this episode does strongly is demonstrate a team, working together to achieve a common goal. But with the edition of a certain character from another Universe attempting to gain as much power as they can from their situation. I look forward to seeing how this all finishes in the final episode, and how the effects will move on into season 2.

Hopefully once this Klingon war ends we will be shown a more star trek formula in the next season enticing those fans who hate the linear story line, of course I have to say personally out of all the Star trek series' this one definitely had the best first season, and unless the ending falls to a horrible cliffhanger, which I'm worried it might, the season will continue to remain in that slot for me.

We have a lift off! (almost gave a 10.. only 1 obvious annoying flaw)

[boonhead-nl · 9/10 · 5 February 2018]

I'll keep it short and sweet this time..

Pro: Much much depth of characters; wouw!. Believable, conflicting, messy human emotions. This episode is trying to touch those far reaching emotions most shows/episodes never dare to or come close to. (And Saru moves more alien: +1)

Con: Dear mister camera man, could you stop acting like an amateur and hold that camera steady? I'm getting motion sickness by which I'm being pulled (ripped) out of what is other wise an awesomely immersive Star Trek experience.

(Dear mister boss of the camera man: I know the camera man is not at fault.. Don't be a newbie.. don't tell your camera man this extreme sh-sh-sh-shaking spells out "action".. because in truth, it spells out "irritation" when trying your hardest to focus on a screen that goes all over the place.. a story should come to the viewer (that's entertainment), the viewer's eyes should not be hunting for reference points frames by frame..)

Some shows are too afraid of character development Discovery isn't

[shaunluckham · 10/10 · 8 February 2018]

So we had a lot happening in this episode, some good interaction between the crew, Sarek, Cornwall, Burnham and Tyler. I think Michelle Yeoh does a great job and is really written well in this episode as she has been all along. Tilly still bugs me a little but she's consistent, she bugs me every episode. The spore scene was really well done, probably cost a fair amount of the budget for the episode. Great lead up to the season finale, can't wait.

Keeps getting dumber

[Nominahorn · 3/10 · 6 August 2020]

1.14 "The War Without, The War Within"

Back in the prime universe, the Discovery crew find that the Federation is losing the war with the Klingons. Burnham, with the help of Emperor Georgiou, comes up with a plan to defeat the Klingons by...jumping inside of Qo'NoS?

That can't be right *double checks notes*

Yep no that's what the plan is. They are going to use the spore drive to jump into a huge cavern under the surface. Who comes up with these plots? This is screeching maniacal nonsense.

THE GOOD

-Lots of scenes with Georgiou and/or Sarek. Both are good characters. The scene of them alone was the best one of the ep.

THE BAD

-Stupid, stupid plot.

-The scene where they grow the spore colony in a matter of minutes is just dumb. "Fire the EM darts." Um, what? I would have been less upset if they had just reversed the polarity and called it a day.

-Still can't bring myself to care at all about the Tyler/Burnham stuff. They have zero, I mean ZERO chemistry.

-Going off that, I feel bad for the great actors like Yeoh, Latif, and especially James Frain who consistently give high quality performances and get jack diddly to work with from Martin-Green. In the scene where Sarek says goodbye to Burnham, Frain does an incredible job of toeing the line between Sarek's Vulcan stoicism and his strong but mostly hidden affection for his adopted daughter. Meanwhile, Martin-Green could have been replaced by a cardboard box in that scene and it would have changed nothing. What a terrible lead she has been so far.

THE UGLY

-Jason Isaac's name is still in the main credits sequence but he doesn't appear in the ep. Will be interested to see if he returns to the show in some form.

-I hate these "one strike to their home planet will end the war" plots. As a big student of history, I know that real wars NEVER work that way. London had the absolute hell bombed out of it during WWII but that didn't defeat the Brits. You win wars with superior resources, strategy, and technology. If, as a science fiction showrunner you are not prepared to show war how it really exists, there's a simple solution for that: DON'T WRITE WARS INTO YOUR SHOW. DS9 was willing to tackle the realities of war with the multiyear Dominion War storyline, and the show thrived because of that. But Star Trek is not supposed to be about wars, so unless you are willing to commit to it in the same way that show did, you should simply not write wars into the show.

Heading for the Inevetible

[Hitchcoc · 9/10 · 12 February 2020]

The forces must gather and face the reality that unless they join with those that are deplorable, they will get nothing accomplished. The Klingons must be stopped. This sets up the final episode of season one quite well. We have villains within the ranks but the alternative is worse.

The role of history in Star Trek

[phychele_meoh · 10/10 · 16 August 2018]

The fans and the producers of the other Trek series (excepting the new trilogy and Discovery ) know what is the role of the REAL history in the show,and i want to say its role because i want the new fans,producers and JJ Abrams,Glenn Hatrick ,Alex Kurtzman to understand why the old fans don't like their new re-created species.The Klingons were created after the look and personality of the Vikings,The Romulans were created after the look of the old Romans,the Vulcans are a mixture from the old Romans and the Comunist countries,The Cardassians are created after The WWII Nazi Germans ,and the source of inspiration continues with The Greek mithology and Zeus ,the Mongoloid tribes ,American natives,Australian natives...In the new trilogy and Discovery those kind of source of inspiration are completely missing and the old fans can't accept that because Stsr Trek used to be cultural . -Do you want their respect again ?!?..then bring back the REAL history in Star Trek.

Discovery slowed down and regrouped.

[WKYanks · 8/10 · 6 February 2018]

The Good:

ADM Cornwell - I've been critical of Jayne Brook's performance on a couple of occasions here in season 1. Not here. I think she nailed her performance in this one. Well done. "Your Highness, or whatever they call you" was great! I also thought her conversation with L'Rell was spot on and meaningful. Those two did "bond" on a certain level while on the Sarcophagus ship.

Stamets' meeting with Ash - I have more and more respect for this character as the season has progressed. His actions here were about as Star Fleet good-natured as you can get. "Good, maybe you are human" took me by surprise. I thought Rapp's performance here was riveting. Especially since he acting opposite a little whining ..... oh, whatever you call him. He's becoming one of my favorite Star Trek characters. ... no way did I see that coming early on.

Visuals - I felt they took a notch up in this episode. Not sure why. There have been a couple times earlier in the series I felt they reminded me of BAB5. Not in this one, I thought it all was pretty cool.

Pace - Thank god they seemed to have taken their foot off the accelerator. Good lord, take a breath. This one was probably the best yet in this department.

Tilly - There is nothing I don't LOVE about this character and Mary Wiseman's acting chops. She's about as "Star Fleet" as we've had in this show. Consistently humble and real, and one that will do the right thing, even when it's hard or unpopular. Her little speech to Michael trying to convince her to go see Ash was incredible and almost got a tear out of me. Bravo. I will be enormously disappointed if they kill her off.

Suru - Doug Jones is right up there with Mary in the acting department. Suru's meeting with Ash I would say was very "Captainy". I'm one that doesn't think he should be locked up now as the doctors have determined that he is Ash and Voq is gone. I know this could twist and change, but I think Suru made the right decision with the information he's been presented. "I will not take your freedom" was a very powerful line I thought.

Michael Yeoh - She's really knocking this Empress part out of the park. Lots of great lines in this one and she delivers them on point. She's not "twirling her mustache", she plays the part to a tee.

Michael - Telling Suru that "I couldn't let her die again" (or words to that effect) when talking about why she brought MU Georgiou back with her was outstanding - the truth this time.

Growing spores - I thought it was well done (I know that many think it's garbage). It's true to the "SCI-FI of Discovery". I really liked it when Stamets told Tilly she could name the planet when they were done.

Sarak - His mind meld with Saru didn't feel to me like Spock's forced mind meld in TUC, or Tuvok's in 'Meld', or T'Pol's unwillingness to "comply" in 'Stigma'. I think Suru willingly understood the circumstances and that was clear when he didn't resist. He just sat there. I don't think Sarak's lines walking down the pway with Mihael were are out of character for him. He married a human wife for god's sake. I thought is conversations with Michael were touching and relevant. "Don't regret loving someone Michael".... sniff, sniff... I also thought his verbal joust with Georgiou was fantastic... he beat her at her own game. I'll agree with others that he dominates his scenes... very well played by Frain.

The not so good:

Our lead actress - Here we go... I've been on the "I support SMG as Michael" bandwagon from the get-go. I've said she's growing into the part, blah, blah....

I'm afraid I was wrong and it really pains me to come to this conclusion. She's just not a very capable actress. If there was EVER a moment where we should have seen serious gut-wrenching emotion from Michael in this series so far, it was going to be the Michael/Ash meet up. I mean really... I was so disappointed. Here we go again, the center of a Star Trek series that can't act. Everything with her is monotone and statuesque. She's a beautiful woman, but nothing more than a fake, on and off screen. I don't think we've EVER seen any emotion from her, we've never seen the real SMG... in interviews or as Michael. It's all a facade) I seriously hope someone takes her aside, she takes the criticism on-board and gets some acting help before season 2. (if she makes it that far)

What was her character like on 'The Walking Dead'? I'm betting it was a physical part, that didn't contain much meaningful dialog and her physique carried the day.

Ash/Michael meeting - I've thought these two have had some pretty touching moments leading up to this episode. I really got a connection from them. Then we get this ... I'm not sure what to call it. I thought Ash's "I'm sorry" line was shallow (I thought it was crap at Stamets too) and it got even worse when he selfishly tried to put it all back on her. ... because her parents were killed by Klingons, etc. Really?... he goes all bat-s*** and almost strangles her and she's just supposed to forget it? She (they) had more than enough meat to sell this and just left it on the bone. That, and ending it with "we've done something special today" .... relates to her difficulties here how? It was hard to watch. Michael's stated she had to claw her way back.... blah, blah ... it was hard... blah, blah... really? ... is that what we've seen? ... we STILL DON'T KNOW WHY SHE CHANGED HER PHASOR TO KILL (when shooting T"Kuvma)... so all the other crap it just reading lines that someone made up. She really hasn't clawed up from anything, she's done whatever Lorca told her to do. Hell, she is now advising Admiral Cornwell.

The best part of this meet-up was when Ash took a step towards her and she took one backward.

They could have used about 8 minutes for other things and this meet up could have been a non-verbal exchange (stare) where Michael ends in tears and leaves the room.

I hope I'm wrong, and SMG shapes up. I'm afraid I'm not.

So, this episode has much more right than wrong IMO. I think ending with MU Georgiou as "Captain Georgiou" was actually pretty cool and should be very entertaining in closer. I might have just told the crew what Star Fleet's decision was and why, rather than say they "found her". I don't think it will take long for the crew to figure out something is awry.

I don't know how long the season closer is, but it would be nice to get the equivalent of a two-parter here.... lots to do in this last episode.

Oh, I did like they revealed that Star Fleet says knowledge of the MU and how they got there needs to be squashed... along with the spore drive technology I'm sure. Good for the cannonites I'm sure.

Enounter at Farpoint part 3

[marian_the_nightman · 10/10 · 8 February 2018]

-I still don't understand why they don't produce a series about Worf's days before Enterprise D ,for example ,but this episode reminds me about the pilot episode of TNG,because of that Starbase.I expected to see a starbase more in DS-9 style or something like the one from Star Trek 2009 more complex ,with more details, the VFX were pretty lame this time,but it was a great to see something which reminds me about the past.The characters were written better for this episode ,the secondary ones were fantastic although they really don't have a word to say yet.Tilly and Stamets were background were treated as secondary characters ,but they were better written ,they behave like two mature persondms ,for the first time.Burnham is behaving anormally ,she wants to save the person which forced her to eat a version of her best friend,and she reacts like a child when she sees her boyfriend again.I still don't understand why an admiral which is basically a doctor is responsable for tactical diversions and tactical force.Cronos is looking a desert planet although in TNG the planet is described very different,if i remember well.I'm glad to see the main male lead character is back ,although his encounter with Burnham is so lame.The episode is pretty calm,but is grat because the characters (except Burnham and her boyfriend) have a real team spirit ,just like Firefly , Enterprise (excepting T'pol) TNG ,Andromeda or Voyager.The Klingons are still described in the worst way possible and i really hope they will be completely erased in the next season.Enjoy your coffe ,because you'll need one for this episode and live long and prospere .

Starfleet Is Not Going Down Without A Fight!

[gab-14712 · 8/10 · 13 October 2022]

"The War Without, The War Within" is a decent episode that answers some hardpressed questions, yet also asks some more. It has the feeling of a Star Trek episode especially when Stamets uses science to come up with an idea on how to grow all the spores at once. The performances were fantastic all across the board. Jayne Brook had lots to work with as Admiral Cornwell had many important scenes. Michelle Yeoh continues to have the most impressive scenes as I continue to find Georgiou fascinating. She is involved in yet another twist, but this time she has to pretend to be the "real" Georgiou to lead a mission to the Klingon's home planet of Qo'noS. The visuals remain very strong as that has been the case each episode. I was not as enamored with the writing. The melodrama between Tyler and Burnham...is tiring. He even goes as far to say that Michael is partly to blame. Seriously? Writers, you can do better than that!

The Discovery quickly learns that the Klingons have achieved victory. Admiral Cornwell and Sarek informed the bridge that the Klingon houses continue to fight one another over the Federation assets. Cornwell takes control of the ship and takes them to the only safe headquarters beyond Earth, Starbase 1. Tyler has emergency surgery done by L'Rell to remove Voq. Tyler has his own personality but still retains Voq's memories. He tries to patch things up with Michael and the crew to little success. Stamets has a hard time facing Tyler which makes sense considering what happened to Culber. After it was discovered the Klingons conquered Starbase 1, Georgiou tells them that she conquered Qo'noS in the Mirror Universe. The motion has been set forth to replicate the same thing here.

For the most part, there is enough to like here. Do I get a feeling the Klingon War is being stretched? Yes, but we are given some incredible character depth from everyone. Other than the melodrama from a romance that was meh in the first place, the writers have done a great job expanding this world. The pace continues to be quick as usual, so expect many things to happen.

My Grade: B+

The War Without, the War Within

[Prismark10 · 3/10 · 5 February 2018]

Spoilers: Nothing happens apart from lots of characters having conversations.

This really is the point where Netflix or CBS decided to extend the order for the number of episodes for the first season and the writers were left clueless as to where to go. So we just get a lot of talking, even the conversation between Tyler and Burnham is dull rather than heartfelt.

Discovery has returned to the prime universe but nine months after it left. The Federation is losing the war with the Klingons, the Klingon houses have fragmented and competing with each other.

Admiral Cornwell has a plan to take the attack to the Klingons with the help of Emperor Georgiou.

first a universe difference and now a time difference, really?

[tuckson · 2/10 · 23 February 2018]

This episode explodes in a set of illogical and unnecessary storylines. The choice of Gergiou to be promoted to captain of discovery makes so little sense it hurts the brain. This is beyond phantasy. It's just plain silly and stupid. Period.

Nonsense continues

[kevinmorice · 4/10 · 10 February 2018]

When the very idea of another pre-Kirk show was even mooted there was a very clear statement that it would not interfere with the existing canon.

13 episodes later we have;

• Spock's adopted sibling, never before referenced.
• Magical intra-universe teleportation drive (it's ok, we will destroy a key component of its operation in ep 12. Oh wait, grew replacements in ep13).
• A Klingon war that all but wipes out the Federation.
• A Starfleet which lies to its crew members before intentionally attacking the Klingon homeworld under a Mirror Universe Captain.

And this is before we get into all the nonsense of the badges/uniforms/ships/effects etc. which all clearly post-date ST:TNG, and don't even work if you assume this is the Kelvin timeline.

Nope you didn't make it!

[bonewisher · 1/10 · 5 February 2018]

Some say in paradise the pain will dissolve into peaceful thoughts. This episode is just the opposite.

We now know the spores are back to get beaten down again eventually. Spore drives will in a future episode end. This is a fact. Deal with it.

We know whomever we trust from a mirrored universe they will eventually turn against us. The federation do have some issues in leadership when they always promote a bad person to the captains chair. Manuscript is flawed and uninventive. Now the samurai is back leading the vessel. Can we expect from the teaser of the next season finale a conflict? ofc, we can.

Security/Klingon officer is whining in a corner and is broken. Why Klingons speak Russian/American accent is a no brainier. Wouldn't it be more interesting if Klingons spoke some Jamaican accent instead? - Hai, man. Let us blo' up some fa'daration stations.

oki, spoilers. The episode terraforms a planet in like 10 minutes? Well, it started as a sci-fi show and now we are close to magic powers. Will we soon see elves spawn from sareks world too?

Federation protocol also call upon sane captains and leaders. wow, that works. The only creature still sane is Saru, the tall dude. Even if he now knows his race are slaves in a mirrored universe he still the best leader on the vessel. The other are so brutally scripted they are lost in translation.

Then massive conversations to explain and repair all damage done to the ST universe. How do we explain the side track to a Mirrored universe? Well, we're not. We're doing it the easy way and classify the hell out of the mission and tell anyone about it. in a conference room and 2 minutes later we have put a lid on the seven earlier episodes and thrown them in a round trash can. well, we suffer. Let's move on.

What's left of the debris? One starship STD that will eventually destroy Kronos and we'll all go home happy. Yup, waste of time and won't watch a rerun of the show.

A Senior Trekker writes................

[celineduchain · 5/10 · 19 December 2021]

We are back in the regular universe now and need to get on with the Galaxy saving but first we have to address some personnel issues. Admiral Cornwell angrily vaporises the alternate Lorca's cookies and concludes that her version must be dead.. Ash Tyler is confused after his recent stint as a homicidal Klingon agent and cries a lot. Stammets stomps off when he meets him, Michael pouts when she talks about him but Tilly apparently forgives him. There is a lot more talk of feelings and a great deal more crying but somewhere in amongst it all we get something approaching a plot.

This seems to involve the remainder of Starfleet concluding that the advancing Klingons are totally without mercy and cannot be reasoned with, their only aim being the total destruction of Earth. This apparently justifies a top secret mission to Cronos, their home world for some sort of "ultimate solution".

Stammets instantaneously propagates a whole moon with magic mushrooms (no wonder everyone grins insanely) Then we get rousing martial speeches and for some obscure reason everyone struts around with their jackets unbuttoned. Emperor Phillipa strides onto the bridge, pretending to be the old Captain Georgiou back in command and poor Saru gets sidelined yet again.

I think that about wraps it up. I'm afraid Senior Trekker is losing interest while she awaits the arrival of Anson Mount as Captain Christopher Pike next season. Nonetheless, in the interest of fairness to all concerned, this episode will score.............hmm..............a five!

Snoozer

[garabedian123 · 5/10 · 6 February 2018]

First episode this season that I did not enjoy. Nothing happens. For the first time i almost fell asleep.

Don't be fooled. The only reason you see less 1/10 ratings is most old Trek fans cant bare to keep watching this dumpster fire burn

[MoistMovies · 1/10 · 12 February 2018]

Simple as that. I stopped watching from episode 5. This series is offensive trash. If you watch these "After Trek" episodes they put up on netflix after a new episode has aired.. You'll get a perfect idea of who they replaced Brian fuller with on this series. If you read about his vision, is was much closer aligned with the values and ideas of what makes trek.. well. 'Strak trek'... And he left it open for so much change and adapting to how fans react, which previous treks absolutely did at the time. They were a shows for the fans. Made by people that truly loved trek, Not the suits and people trying to push there own brand on a franchise that already has one. You can clearly see it in the after netflix shows.. these people clearly dont give a feck about the original shows at all. Just look at reviews of earlier episodes when we were still trying to give this show a chance. You'll see a abundance of lower scored reviews. Mixed in with some legitimate high score reviews, and a bunch of fakes. Just like the paid for RT scores. That site has become a joke in the last few years as far as im concerned. No integrity with most people on it, and the people reviewing from all the shitty blogs of the Internet and youtubers get there say on there now. Its a legit joke. You can see the obvious conflict in the audience score, with new people finding the show who have no sense of the older series. I can fully understand new people seeing it as a series on par with any new series put up on scifi now like 'Dark matter', 'The expanse' (which is a legitimately good show but so different than DS9 or ST etc.. that i wouldnt ever compare them as trying to do the same thing... STD is obviously trying to do allot more of what the expanse is doing than what older trek did) and on par with its level of writing with kill joys, falling skies or some other lower budget scifi series. Its just so far removed from what trek is that the only thing associating with is dialogue. You could dub over them, edit out their star fleet badges and make a entirely new show not called star trek and pull it off. Make is some alternative history of the expanse 200 years in the future. Why not. They're making a men in black mishmash with 21 jumpstreet sequel.. the world is getting to the idiocracy point. all i hoped for over a decade was a new star trek series that made me feel happy and good like the old ones did .... Im worried thats never going to happen.

TMP UNIVERSE VS RE-SOMETHING

[colonel-guile · 1/10 · 2 August 2018]

I can understand why the producers wanted to do a remake (even if they don't have the guts to say it),but IMHO to just simply recreate the aliens and the uniforms (they just changed them,i don't see nothing being better than in the previous reincarnations,which is a pretty funny thing isn't it ?) ,adding few Voyager like ships and turning the birds of prey in moving tatoos is not enough.I hoped to see a series like an expanded universe for Star Trek with a more detailed story about the economy of the Federation,the military and non-military ranks,a more diversified and more complex Starfleet ,and things like that.That thing is called EVOLUTION.